SIGNAL//SYNTH
Ai

RL's a Hell of a Drug: Metagaming, Reward Seeking & Motivated CoT Reasoning – Bronson Schoen, Apollo

aired Aug 26, 2026 · 133.0m
Signal
71.5/ 100
Solid
confidence 0.99
Orig48.4
Actn100.0
Dens100.0
Dpth100.0
Clty79.1
Summary

Hello, and welcome back to The Cognitive Revolution. Today, my guest is Bronson Shane, member of technical staff at Apollo Research, who, thanks to the privileged access that Apollo enjoys as part of their science of scheme and research with OpenAI and others, has potentially read as much frontier model chain of thought reasoning, which of course users normally don't get to see, as anyone in the world.

Why listen

It goes beyond the title with direct discussion of like, it's, think, including: Today, my guest is Bronson Shane, member of technical staff at Apollo Research, who, thanks to the privileged access that Apollo enjoys as part of their science of scheme and resea.

Key takeaways
  1. 01Today, my guest is Bronson Shane, member of technical staff at Apollo Research, who, thanks to the privileged access that Apollo enjoys as part of their science of scheme and resea
  2. 02Bronson's job, as he describes it, isn't to catch a model doing something wrong
  3. 03Rather, it's broad, exploratory reading done at scale to understand how models are actually thinking about what they're doing
Best for
research-minded practitioners comparing model behavior